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Submission Versus Love: Offended By The Bible?A church in England preached Ephesians 5:22 and Colossians 3:18 and immediately many women members were so offended that they quit the congregation. So what does Eph 5:22 and Col 3:18 say that is so offensive?
Some of the women congregants said they were "disgusted" by the sermon which was accompanied by leaflets. Further, a woman member asked,
Before we get into the texts in question, let's look at the responses by some of the women. Clearly the two texts cited, call for wives to submit to their husbands, and these are New Testament texts, not something brought over only from the Old Testament in case someone implies these concepts are "done away with in Christ". But some of the responses by the women show that they want to believe only the things they want to believe about the Bible. This pastor isn't making up some personal concept but rather is merely preaching Christian concepts. Maybe rather than summarily reject the message, the women should ask themselves, "Yes, that concept is in the Bible, but what does it mean?" Does it mean women are to do whatever their husbands tell them without question? Does it mean women can never talk in Church? Another woman congregant said:
Is every sermon we find to be non-contemporaneous with our views to be dismissed as "medieval" or out of touch with modern times? What kind of Faith will we end up with if we impose our beliefs on the Bible rather than having the Bible shape our beliefs and practices? Now let us look closer at the texts in question. The entire context of Eph 5 is not only submission of wives to husbands but submission of Christians, "as children" to God and submission to each other as a community of saints. Christianity is not a lone-ranger religion despite how it is often depicted as a "personal faith". As a matter of fact, Eph 5:21, one verse before the wives submit to their husbands verse, we read:
Is it merely 15th-century gobbledygook for Christians to submit to one another and worse yet in "fear" of God? Next, let's look at the full context of the wife submission verses.
As you notice, the full context gives us the reasoning behind the concept, that is husbands are the head of the wife as also Christ is the head of Church. When we deny that a husband is the head of the wife do we also deny that Christ is the head of the Church? Keep in mind I am writing this article as a married man, married 20 years. I fully discussed this issue with my wife on more than one occasion and discussed this specific article. And how fitting I write this article one day before Valentines Day. :-) But what does in submission to everything really mean? Does it mean, well everything? That wives should just do everything they are told by their husbands without question? Is that how the Church submits to Christ? Do individual Christians, even the apostles themselves just do everything Christ said or did they sometimes question Him. Not question in rebellion or disobedience but in clarification. Now, granted husbands and their judgment is not perfect like Christ's so when a husband is questioned, as Christ was often questioned even by His followers, a husband may need to relent and change his decision. But before we go on, let me continue the context of the quote, for it does not end with calling women to submit. So often, as my wife pointed out we focus on the fact that the text tells women to submit to their husbands yet we do not hear many sermons preached on what men must do toward their wives.
Just how much does Christ love the church? He gave Himself for her. Or more specifically, he was defamed, ridiculed, tortured, and ultimately killed for the Church. How much more self-sacrificing can you get than that? So, the problem is, while we see and understand the Bible calling for wives to submit to husbands, how much do we really understand the kind of self-sacrifice a husband should have for his wife? Does ANY husband really love his wife like that yet we want women to submit like the Church submits (is supposed to) submit to Christ? And quite frankly, there are many husbands that aren't "leading" their Looking further at the Colossians 3 context, we read:
Maybe if submitting to your husband is "disgusting" so too is it "disgusting" for husbands to love their wives and not be bitter toward them. Maybe it is "disgusting" that children are told to obey their parents in all things. Maybe it is "disgusting" that fathers are told to not provoke their children? The point is, while we may find things in the Bible which are sometimes difficult for our human nature to practice, nevertheless as Christians we need to be receptive to what the Word of God is saying and not blame the message on the messenger. Do some people take the wives submit to your husbands text out of context? Yes, some husbands use it as a license to boss their wives around, forgetting the self-sacrificial role of the husband. Some people want to claim it is merely a culture precept, meant only for those immediate times but no longer for today. Again, so if that is the case, then should husband's loving their wives and children obeying their parents also be cast away as only a 1st-century thing? Christian marriages fail, Christian families fail when we turn away from the Bible, claiming it is so "medieval" that we pick and choose what to believe and what to practice. If we behave like that, that is no longer a "Christian" marriage or "Christian" family. So, as the Bible says; wives submit to your husbands, husbands love your wives self-sacrificially and without bitterness, children obey your parents, fathers do not provoke your children but treat them gently. What is so "disgusting" about that message? Why would a Christian become offended by that message? The UK article can be read here: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2851665/Church-orders-wives-to...
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submission is slavery
Submission is slavery. No ands, ifs, or buts about it. To submit means to yield your will to another person. So, if you submit, you have no free will. You are not free. The opposite of submission is domination. Please don't insult my intelligence by saying a submissive and a dominate are equal. They most certainly are not. Maybe slavery is not all that bad if you have a nice master, but you are still not free, and you are certainly not equal. I'm surprized so many women want to be their husband's pet slave. Don't they have any self esteem. My God believes in equality, and freedom. That means I don't believe in the god of the bible. That god hates, no despises women
your opinion
Who are you to say that god hates women. God loves women so much that he trust us with his most important task of bearing and taking care of his children. I admit submission is in some way a form of slavery but you as a human don't seem to mind it much. You are a slave to media, world possession and your heart. Once you find yourself in love you will become a slave to your beloved sacrificing your wants and needs for their happiness and you won't even notice. God is my master and yours as well and he has never made you do anything humiliating or harmful to you. If he leads you to a husband submit to him because if you can't trust your husband with your freedom then he is not the husband god chose for you. If your husband is a good loving god fearing hard working man then you will want to submit to him without question cause he has proved he deserves it.
Life is 'slavery'
Thank you for commenting Judy. Also thank you for pointing out that you don't believe in the god of the Bible. My beef is with people who do believe in the God of the Bible and yet they reject major portions of the Bible. They don't seem to realize that they undermine their so-called belief in God when they implicitly claim God hasn't sustained basic truth.
As for your comments on slavery, I will not argue. Submission could indeed be classified as a form of servitude. This is why philosophers like Francis Berry, Bertrand Russell, William Blake claimed that marriage was a form of slavery and even spousal rape. Some philosophers went so far as to advocate that children should be free to have any sort of sexual partners they themselves found acceptable and non-hurtful; after all if we are going to emancipate people from this "slavery" let us go all the way, right?
Further, I have often thought how people in America are born into a slave system even today. I mean look at it, we can't simply find a plot of land and build a shelter and live our lives. Instead, most Americans must find work doing the bidding of another person. We are locked into paying rent, mortgages, utilities, not to mention taxes. What if I didn't want to be part of that rat race anymore? Where could I go to be truly "free"? If I went to the mountains, eventually some government official would find me and throw me off "public land" and perhaps fine me for squating.
Darn it, we're all slaves to some degree aren't we? So, perhaps it is best if we choose, happily how our "slavery" will be. I am happy to be the "slave" to my wife in monogamy as she is happy to be my "slave". Neither of us were forced into this situation. We both chose it, unlike our birth into the world where we can't pop up a shelter and have the rest of you people leave us alone.
So, Judy while you may be able to choose to some degree, the kind and level of "slavery" you are a part of, you cannot ultimately escape it.
I teach my children, that the TRUE definition of love is self-sacrifice. When we give up what we want for the want of others; THAT is love.
Give me liberty (free will
Give me liberty (free will as opossed to submission-to yield to the will of another) or give me death.
Hi Roderick, it's Judy. How
Hi Roderick, it's Judy. How would you like to yield to the will of someone else in your personal life. I know why men like that horrible verse, you get your own little pet slave-just make sure to feed and clothe her, and be a nice master, and you're fine. You have somebody to "yeild to your will" on all things. That really must be nice. What if, because of the way your were born, somebody said your last decision would be at your marriage. You were then required to "Yield your will" to another person. I always thought of men that advocated for the submission of women to be slave-mongers. Yes, we are all slaves to a certain degree, but our own home are supposed to be a santuary (and not just for your precious men), to give up your freedom in your own home is basically what you are asking. Do you let your wife make any decisions on her own, or is she not allowed at all. I really don't mean to be mean, I am just curious.
A Strong Wife
First Judy, I'm truly sorry if you have had a bad experience with a man who abused this principle as it seems you have.
In a truly biblical household, the man has the burden for the general welfare, protection, and direction of the family. A biblically responsible husband will lead his house with the aid and counsel of his wife. After all, the Bible makes it clear that both join and become one; so much so that 1 Cor 7:4 says:
I'd say that gives the woman/wife quite a lot of "authority" over her husband. However, the husband should be the one ultimately responsible for his household.
Further, the wife in Proverbs 31:10-31 is hardly some prisoner. Let's examine the text a bit.
Judy, I think the problem is, while men often fail at "loving their wives like Christ loves the Church" (Eph 5:25), women often fail at being the strong, supportive wife presented in Proverbs 31. So, instead the sexes blame each other when they aren't fulfilling their own roles.
Lastly, you want to see repression, look at women who live under Islam. They make their women cover themselves from head to toe because the men are too weak to keep from lusting. Whereas in the Bible, women who wore veils over their faces were considered prostitutes (Gen 38:15).
Again, I'm sorry you have had a bad experience. Maybe you should concentrate more on your role and less on the failures of men to uphold their role.
Thanks for the comments
Thank you for responding to
Thank you for responding to me, Roderick. I agree that Muslim women are very opproessed, and that is why I maintain seperation of church and state-for us in American to uphold. If we upheld the bible laws in the US, women would have few rights here also. Your postings in this website did me some good, though. You are wrong about having a bad experience with a man, because of those versus, I would never let one get close. Because of those verses, I had an unnatural hatred towards men. I thought all they wanted to do was dominate (opposite of submission). My logic in those versus are as follow:
The bible says for women to be submissive therefore god wants women to be submissive therefore God wants women to be slaves therefore god hates women therefore God hates me.
The bible says women should not speak therefore God says women should not speak therefore god thinks women have nothing important to say therefore I have nothing important to say therefore I am not important and I am nothing.
These are just some examples of my though process. I see now that the bible is toxic to me-like my own personal brand of illegal dangerous drugs. In it you see love, and I see hatred. I know it's all in the way different people percieve things. Anyway, you made me see that. Our minds are funny things. My self worth was destroyed by a few words, and that is my fault-I let those words make me think that I was nothing. As I said, I don't believe in the god of the bible, but i let that God tell me I was nothing.Isn't that strange.I guess I need to ask MY God guidance in sorting out my inferiority issues, but I thank you for bringing all this to my attention. Some bad things happened in my life the last year and a half, so that is probably why all this came back to me (no-it was not a man). You seem like a really nice person, even for a head/husband. Notice I din't say slave-monger. I wish you all the best. Judy
If you believe in submission
If you believe in submission of wives and you are a man-you are a slave-monger.It must be nice to get someone to do everything you say. To give you their freedom. I like the way men like that verse so much. The bible god is hateful and misogynistic. Any man that believes in a wife's submission, believes he is superior to her. Let's face it, submission is NOT equality.